31-May-2010 by James Bell Jr..

There are a few cases that come up that I get asked about in Concealed Firearm Courses.  One of these is the somewhat famous case relating to Dell Schanze.  The other is the case of Reginald Campos and David Serbeck from an incident on 22-July-2009.

After I was asked about the Campos/Serbeck case last week, I was amazed at the way that some people think.  They take the issued media statements from the DA’s office and the police Probable Cause statements as absolute fact.  One lady said “They can’t lie, can they?”.

Well, you will find that the police can indeed lie to you, and they will lie to you when they are dealing with you.  I will refer you to this video and this video for more information.

The gist of the video is a lawyer AND a police officer both telling you that the police can and will lie to you, and that they will twist anything you say so that it can be used against you. The police officer makes this VERY clear.

“Anything you say CAN and WILL be used against you”.

Every attorney I have ever heard talk says the same thing - do not talk to the police.  Keep this in mind as you read on.

If you ever read a Probable Cause statement, it will say that it is a BELIEF.  Here is how a “PC” statement works.

The police take all of the stories they get and their own theories, and try to write a screenplay that fits together.  You start with the main scene (whatever got them involved - in this case the shooting of Mr. Serbeck by Mr. Campos), and then try to come up with the  story line that will get you to that point.

If you know anything about movies, you know that screenplays often go through many revisions before the story that makes it to the screen is finalized.  Probable Cause statements are NOT factual or true.  They are a theory - they are the best story that the police can come up with that fits - and that the DA feels they can sell to a jury.

The DA will take that story to a jury and see if they like it.  If they do, the DA will win.  If they don’t, the defense will win.  Think of it as hoping to win a People’s Choice award with a movie.  If they audience buys it, you win.  If they don’t, you just wasted a bunch of money.

Here is a link to the Probable Cause statement in this case.  Read it carefully.  Look at what it says.  There is a lot to learn in it, and it hasn’t even gone to a jury yet.

Now, here is a link to the audio of the 911 call that Mr. Campos placed.  Listen to it and compare it with the PC statement.  There are a lot of differences.

Just a few questions and some observations:

If someone had a gun pointed at you or was drawing a firearm in such a situation, would you be able to determine that the safety is “on” based on visual observation?  Would a police officer?  How would a police officer react?

Are you familiar with the safety levers on various handguns?  Do you know what they all do?  On how many firearms can you still work the slide with the safety on?

If someone is confronting you with a firearm and it was not your intent to defend yourself, would you exit your vehicle holding a firearm?  Or would you exit the vehicle with empty hands to show that you are not a threat?

Would you hold a firearm as described by Mr. Serbeck?

Keep in mind that Mr. Peterson is a friend of Mr. Serbeck.

What did you learn from the video that I referred you to earlier?  What does the PC statement indicate was received from Mr. Campos?

I have also been asked what I would have done if I was there.

I wouldn’t have been. I’ll deal with that aspect tomorrow.

Posted in Uncategorized | 1 Comment »

31-May-2010 by James Bell Jr..

In my role as a firearms instructor, I’m sometimes asked about “What If” scenarios.  I teach my Concealed Carry students to do this frequently as a part of their mental preparation - forming response plans for scenarios that they may encounter.  It improves your reaction time.

Last week I was asked about the incident at Trolley Square.  For those of you that are not familiar with it, Trolley Square is a shopping mall in Salt Lake City, UT.  It is important to note that Trolley Square has signage prohibiting firearms on the premises.

On 12-February-2007, a muslim man named Sulejman Talović entered the mall with a handgun and a shotgun.  He went on a shooting spree.  He killed 5 people and injured several others.  He was eventually killed.

Students and others have often asked what I would have done.  Would I have gone to confront him?

The answer is an absolute NO.  I would only have dealt with him if he was between me and my family, or between us and safety.  I would not have gone looking for him.

I have been called a coward for giving that answer.  But there are very practical concerns, as well as legal concerns that go into that attitude.

Remember, Trolley Square is an unarmed victim zone.  They have signs prohibiting firearms on the premises.  While those signs hold no “legal” weight in Utah (unlike a 30.06 sign in Texas), most good Concealed Firearm Permit holders will avoid such places.  I do, so I would not have been there.

However, putting that aside, say that I was to have been there.

A Concealed Firearm Permit does not make you a police officer.  It is there for when you have done all that you can to avoid trouble, and trouble still comes looking for you.  It allows you to protect yourself and those you ELECT to protect.  In my recommendation - that’s your immediate family.

Going to confront him is a bad idea on multiple PRACTICAL counts…

• The police will have been called.
• They will be looking for a man with a gun.  If you expect them to have an accurate description, try listening in to a police scanner sometime.  It takes a good deal of time for that information to be ACCRATELY transmitted. 
• If you are going around with your gun at low ready, guess what? 
  • YOU ARE A MAN WITH A GUN.
• If someone else - like an off-duty police officer or another Concealed Firearm Permit holder - is doing the same thing, guess what? 
  • HE IS A MAN WITH A GUN.
• If you run into each other, it could end VERY badly for one or both of you.
• If you run into a responding police officer, it could end very badly for you.
  •  Even if you are not shot on the spot, you will most likely end up handcuffed and in the back of a police car until the whole thing is sorted out.  Expect that to take hours or longer.

Now, let’s look at the police response.

• The police will be setup at the entrances.
• They will expect the possibility that the gunman (or gunmen) may disengage and pose as fleeing victims.
• In the case of Trolley Square there is video of families being told to keep their hands up and being taken to sorting areas where they were fully checked out.  They stood in the cold for hours, kids too.
• When they are frisking people, you may not have the time to announce your permit before someone yells “gun!” and you find yourself in a bad situation.
• It could get even worse if a scared individual sees your firearm print through your clothing or your shirt rides up in all of the running.  What happens when the soccer mom next to you sees your gun? 
  • She won’t yell “gun” like a cop.
  • She’ll yell “It’s him!!!!!!!!”

If I would have been there, I would only have confronted the gunman if he was…

• between me and my family
• or
• between us and safety. 

In that case I would end the threat, whatever was required.

My goal as soon as I realized what was happening would have been to get my family to our car and get us out of the area as fast as I possibly could.  We don’t want to get caught behind the cordon they will be setting up, and have to wait for hours in the cold while they figure out what’s going on.   Better to not be there.

Discretion - It is the better part of valor.

Posted in Uncategorized | No Comments »